Anonymous has left a new comment on your post ""Gawd Help The Good People Of Enfield" &'Freshwat...":
>>T-Ville needs their own police force/presence down there. Maybe if the Police Station was located where the Recreation Center is located, that might make a difference.
Enfield officials turned their back on T-Ville when they elected to move the Police Station from T-Ville to Elm St. Why wasn't the Police Station move to the vacant Higgin's building? Probably because the police wanted a brand spanking new building, away from
residents.
Same with Senior Center. It too moved from T-Ville to a brand spanking building in the middle of no-man's land (well, now there are some "men" cuz the new high priced condos went up).
See a pattern here. T-Ville was abandoned by the same people who are trying to revitalize it now.
HELLO, is anyone home? You guys made the decision to move the police presence out of the downtown. You guys made the decision to move the Senior Center
(along with moving the High St Post Office).
Enfield officials are behind the T-Ville "exodus" with their bright ideas to move services to the "burbs". Didn't ya realize they effect that would have on T-Ville?
So please, spare me the bleeding hearts, trying to revive an area that was allowed to deteriorate
by at their own hands and doings.
How many Council members or BOE members live in T-Ville now? Does the Town Manager or Police Chief live in T-Ville? How many Council members, Town officials or BOE members own rental property in T-Ville?
If you won't live there how do you expect others to live there??
Again, spare us the bleeding heart, liberalism. Its so transparent.
If you want to see a vibrant train
station in the center of a middle-class community, go visit Wallingford, CT. If you want to see a "downtown" revitalized, go visit Middletown, CT.
But Enfield is no Middletown. and Enfield is no Wallingford. Face it.
Posted by Anonymous to The Cool Justice Report at 3:43 PM
31 comments:
RIGHT ON, O'Blogger! Perhaps if
the Enfield Police Station was
in T-Ville (as opposed to playing
neighbor to the new Senior Center),
T-Ville may have had a chance to
become something other than a
rundown, drug dealers' crime haven.
Here's a lil'trivia question for the lurking audience. There's a T-Ville Little League, right? Well, how many of their ball fields are actually located in T-Ville?
Their lighted field behind Asnuntuck Community College certainly ain't in T-Ville? Nor is the field behind the school on Shaker Rd.
Does the T-Ville Little League even play ball in T-Ville anymore?
W.T. Grants is gone, Western Auto is gone, so is Vincent's and the French Poodle. The Strand Theatre's heydays are over. Stop
lamenting about the "good ol'T-Ville days".
Its revitalization is a pipe dream.
If revitalization = restoring the historic Thompsonville of the '50s, forget about it… the whole world has changed… business has changed, retail has changed, expectations have changed.
If revitalization = turning T-Ville into a real city according to a concept of dynamic tradition, I can buy it.
Here's what's going to happen. First step is to clear out the drug-dealers and criminals criminals through aggressive enforcement. That's happening slowly but surely.
Once the criminals and low-lives have been arrested or scared out by the police, the next step is to institute tax abatements for new construction and renovation.
Once those things happen, you will have the migration of gays and bohemians who recognize the undervalued real-estate in the neighborhood. With them will come quirky new businesses and a lively social scene.
Following the gays and bohemians will be the bourgeois who gentrify the neighborhood, in turn will attract chain retail to have a presence there.
The train station is an addition that will help to catalyze the development cycle. Some people on this site very assuredly state that not that many people will take the train to Hartford. I encourage them to pay a visit to the commuter lot by Bob's. Those buses fill up quickly— and many of these businessmen would prefer to commute by train. Why? Buses get stuck in traffic— and often I-91 traffic backs up to before the HOV entrance. Also, once the buses get off the highway, they crawl through Hartford traffic. Trains don't face traffic lights or highway traffic and will get us into Hartford MUCH faster. There is more demand than you realize.
This is a time-tested pattern that has repeated itself in countless places: Middletown, West Hartford Center, Bethesda, MD, Washington, DC, Chicago. There's no reason why it can't happen in Enfield, if the right steps aren't taken.
The statement that it costs money is correct… even tax abatements constitute a subsidy. However, tax abatements on new construction only are not "lost revenue" because they would never be gained without the new construction / renovation.
It would be great if the state had a more dynamic program for creating free enterprise zones. In addition to tax abatements, an idea would be to exempt small / non-chain store businesses from sales & use tax.
Some of the people who are most negative about T-Ville are the ones who have lived in Enfield the longest. Ultimately, the place is going to be revitalized by out-of-towners and kids… because they don't have all the negative baggage that long-time Enfield people do.
But there is a lot of demand for train service and urban living, especially by the under-40 crowd. These things that could be harnessed to improve Thompsonville.
"of course buildings in themselves don't cause crimes. however when an area is filled with low end housing, and absentee landlords, these dwellings end up attracting a certain "element" (i.e. individuals) that we don't want in Enfield.
what's your explanation for all the crimes & drug dealings in T-ville area, as compared to other areas in Enfield? Answer: Its the rundown surroundings.
T-ville has all the same kind of problems one would find in any big city. yet T-ville is not an accurate reflection of the Town of Enfield. T-ville is one "bad spot" that stands out like sore thumb.
I know its drastic, but time to cut off the bad thumb to save the rest of the hand!
Bulldoze down the vacant buildings, the low income housing and crumbling mill houses, and
the people dealing drugs and carry guns on T-ville streets will leave cuz they won't be able to stay in Enfield (... its highly unlikely they could afford to live in a single family home in Southwood Acres or Whit Acres, or historic district. At the very least, they'd certainly stand out!)"
But again, the rundown surroundings were caused by people. They weren't attracted by rundown-ness. They were attracted by cheap rents.
How did it come to have cheap rents? The real estate market is all about supply and demand.
In the case of T-ville, you had oversupply, following the closing of the carpet mill.
"Nature abhors a vacuum." Consequently, that vacuum was filled by would-be slumlords who bought up property on the cheap and do-gooders whose idea of "affordable housing" was a Section 8 handout for the tenants of these would-be slumlords. From there the thing snowballed downhill.
With cheap rents came the criminals and low lives. Crime enforcement is helping to push them out.
But another piece of this is more aggressive enforcement of the blight ordinance.
Unfortunately, Zoning Enforcement Officer Wayne Bickley is too busy handing out citations to the nuns, to be bothered with citing people for garbage in their yards.
Last year at a P&Z meeting he tried to pass off enforcement of much of the blight ordinance as the responsibility of the police. In reality the only thing that the police are responsible for is unregistered motor vehicles.
Rumor has it that Wayne is retiring. Let's hope his successor has a more aggressive approach to reigning in the blight problem.
Enfield ain't West Hartford, in case
ya haven't noticed. No one will flock to live in T-Ville once/if the criminals could be 'rounded up. Enfield is all about single family homes. Blue collar community. Ya don't have the demand for a "blue back-like square" in Enfield.
>>I encourage them to pay a visit to the commuter lot by Bob's. Those buses fill up quickly— and many of these businessmen would prefer to commute by train. Why? Buses get stuck in traffic— and often I-91 traffic backs up to before the HOV entrance. Also, once the buses get off the highway, they crawl through Hartford traffic. Trains don't face traffic lights or highway traffic and will get us into Hartford MUCH faster.
Of course the Bob's lot is filled.
that's because its in a well light, populated spot where commuters feel safe leaving their cars. and where they can easily jump onto main roads or stop @ a nearby store to pick up a gallon of milk on their way home.
That won't be the case w/some lot in T-Ville. Think 'bout it.
Trains derail. Trains get stuck (happens all the time). Enfield ain't New York City. People won't
swap from buses to trains cuz commuter buses can drop people off closer to where they work. trains drop people off @ train stations where they need to find another form of transportation to get to their work place. How is that more convenient?
People love their cars. Many won't ever take a bus or commuter van. They certainly won't be tempted to take a train out of T-Ville. Period. Even if they're giving seats away free.
This is a "pie in the sky" salvation dream for T-Ville. Its T-Ville one last shot @ revitalization cuz w/o "something" to draw masses, there is no reason to go to T-Ville.
"Once those things happen, you will have the migration of gays and bohemians who recognize the undervalued real-estate in the neighborhood. With them will come quirky new businesses and a lively social scene.
Following the gays and bohemians will be the bourgeois who gentrify the neighborhood, in turn will attract chain retail to have a presence there."
We're already got the tattoo parlors, so I'd say the artists are already in T-Ville!!!!!!!!!!
And I'm not sure Enfield is up to having a lively nightlife aimed
at gays and bohemians? That would certainly require additional police presence downtown.
Think you've been reading too many articles about West Hartford's Blue Back (and the jury is still out as to whether that project will succeed or not).
>>They weren't attracted by rundown-ness. They were attracted by cheap rents.
same story as what came first, "the chicken or the egg".
as T-Ville's housing became increasingly "run down", the rents had to decrease in order to fill the vacant units. if the housing was in sparkling condition, the low lives couldn't afford to live there. and wouldn't be there now.
Raising the rents on rundown units aren't possible. Removing rundown units is. Raze them. Have the Town take over the properties and perhaps convince the State to build
another correction facilities in the T-Ville area. The State needs more prisons and T-Ville needs "something" to keep criminals away.
then perhaps move the courts to T-Ville and create an all-in-one
State justice "location". Maybe then Enfield's Police Station would
move back to T-Ville?
>>They weren't attracted by rundown-ness. They were attracted by cheap rents.
I've lived in Middletown, and while
there are some similarities w/Enfield there are some big differences to consider. For one, while both have State community college campuses, Middletown has Wesleyan University. Middletown is a college town, spending big bucks to attend a very expensive college. Thus, Middletown has a built-in population that supports local eateries, shops, etc.
There's no comparison between the
deep pockets of a Wesleyan student
and a student @ Asnuntuck. Same holds true for West Hartford. Between UHart, St Joe's, & UConn's
Hartford branches, there are lots of college students pumping $$$ into West Hartford ventures.
>If revitalization = turning T-Ville into a real city according to a concept of dynamic tradition, I can buy it.
You can buy it? Well, I hope you can pay for it then, because I can't, and won't. I won't be a part of throwing good money towards another hair-brain scheme to "save"
Thompsonville.
An earlier Enfield town officials let the downtown fall apart right before their very eyes. Shame on you guys. So don't come looking to me now to support your "save T-Ville" plans.
When I see the Police Chief, the Town Manager, and perhaps the Mayor moving to Thompsonville, then maybe, just maybe I won't think these plans a chock of you-know-what.
Enfield's former mayor, Pat Tat, chose to live in the historic Enfield district. Not sure if former mayor, Mary Lou's residence was considered in T-Ville, but at least she
was closer to the area than most!
Okay anon, Pat Crowley on the TC does live in T.ville. TC members are elected by their diffent districts in which they live so they cannot all live in Tville or they wouldn't be on the Council, get it? And, you don't have to live d.town to do something about it. If you forget about d.town, it wont just "go away". Chief S. and his guys have done amazing surveillances and good work patrolling the area. I'm not blind and dont believe it will ever be Wisteria Lane, but it is what it is and deserves attention or it will get worse.
Wow, this is the best bloging I've seen in awhile.
North Hampton MA was run down years ago and now it thrives. Middletown was a lazy little town for many years and now it thrives. Sure both towns had a college or university but they were there before these towns turned their downtowns around. They made it attactive for attorneys, small professional businesses, and also shops and restaurants. Now both have more demand for space than they have supply, even in a down economy. The point is it is very possible and highly probable with the right attention and priority.
In the T-ville argument the question is still is a healthy T-ville vital to a healthy Enfield. The answer is clearly Yes. First it needs to stop costing us money and possibly start producing dollars.
>>North Hampton MA was run down years ago and now it thrives. Middletown was a lazy little town for many years and now it thrives.
c'mon, North Hampton, MA has Enfield beat 10 fold. Again, in addition to a very expensive college campus in North Hampton, its also part of the Five College system. Amherst is its neighbor.
Enfield is a sub-par retail center. Plain and simple. There is no major draws to Enfield unless one needs something @ the Square, Home Depot, or to visit an inmate.
Middletown has a hospital. Enfield doesn't. Middletown has
Wesleyan, Enfield has Asnuntuck.
Wallingford indeed has a great train station. Its located
on the main drag, in plain view for
all to see. Its smack in the middle of their town. surrounded by shops and restuarants. people use that station cuz its more convenient than going into New Haven.
Enfield ain't West Hartford, it ain't North Hampton, it ain't Middletown, and it certainly
ain't Wallingford.
Enfield is about strip malls and shopping centers. that open and close like the wind. businesses that attract shop lifters, purse snatchers and car thieves.
>>Okay anon, Pat Crowley on the TC does live in T.ville. TC members are elected by their diffent districts in which they live so they cannot all live in Tville or they wouldn't be on the Council, get it?
Whoopie, one person on Council and BOE? Couldn't an "at large" Council member also live in T-ville?
Again, where does Enfield's Police Chief live? Where does Enfield's new Town Manager live? how 'bout Dep. Town Manager? How many of Enfield's teachers, firemen or cops live in Thompsonville?
How many Council members or town officials own rental property in Thompsonville?
No one wants to live in T-ville.
Even the good people who claim to care so much about that depressed area.
Kissel and Edgar also live in the area I believe. Not sure on the BOE but again, you don't have to live somewhere to care about it. I've owned rentals in T.ville, many, and care about the area even though I don't personally live there. I cared even BEFORE I owned there.
""Once those things happen, you will have the migration of gays and bohemians who recognize the undervalued real-estate in the neighborhood. With them will come quirky new businesses and a lively social scene.
Following the gays and bohemians will be the bourgeois who gentrify the neighborhood, in turn will attract chain retail to have a presence there."
We're already got the tattoo parlors, so I'd say the artists are already in T-Ville!!!!!!!!!!
And I'm not sure Enfield is up to having a lively nightlife aimed
at gays and bohemians? That would certainly require additional police presence downtown."
Could someone tell me how these remarks don't smack of the worst kind of ageism and homophobia?
Maybe you don't get this…
The idea is for the gays and bohemians to DISPLACE and REPLACE the criminals.
The cost of more visible police presence on Friday and Saturday night is fraction of what it costs to round up the drug dealers.
Have really enjoyed this particular discussion. It prompted a ride through Thompsonville (not something I regularly do).
Now, I'm no urban designer (but I don't believe anyone on Enfield's Council is either), but its easy to see that Thompsonville (T-ville, for short) suffers from an "image problem". No good will come of this area until the image is changed, and folks "outside" of T-ville see some value there.
1) there are too many empty storefronts. that empty furniture store on corner of RT 5 and Elm does nothing for the area. its like having a billboard that says "this is what T-vlle is all about"
Same thing when ya see Higgins. Its hard to believe the Town couldn't come up with a better use for this old building. Think harder, guys. It need to be used.
2) I don't think I've ever seen so many barber shops or nail salons in such a small radius. are these businesses the only biz attracted to T-ville? 1/2 don't have convenient parking.
3) the Strand Theatre needs to be demolished. then that space could become much needed parking for the Rec Center. Unless of course that Rec Center was placed there cuz it was believed most kids using that facility walk there? Was it?
there are plenty of theaters in Hartford and Springfield. there's a playhouse in Broad Brook. Enfield doesn't need "their own". so use that valuable space for Rec Cent parking.
4) T-ville needs a police sub-station and that empty Lil'Country Store across from Diana's Bakery would be perfect. If the police really mean business down there, they need to be down there. I'm sure the renters in Bigalow would applaud having a police sub-station there. So would those who stop @ Diana's or Caronna's.
Lastly, even if these suggestions were done, I personally would not frequent T-ville. I live closer to East Windsor line and use their post office, and grocery stores. I also work in MA and wouldn't take a train anywhere. An Enfield train station would do nothin' for me.
What I do miss, is the bridge that used to run between T-ville and Suffield. It saved time. If it was still there, more people would come through the area.
>>>And I'm not sure Enfield is up to having a lively nightlife aimed
at gays and bohemians? That would certainly require additional police presence downtown."
>
>>Could someone tell me how these remarks don't smack of the worst kind of ageism and homophobia?
did it ever dawn on ya that perhaps the blogger didn't mean anything other than its fairly common knowledge that some gays have plenty of income and enjoy living & renovating older homes/buildings??? and that by "bohemians", they perhaps were referring to the same kind of folks that have revived the Colt's building in Hartford??? Musicians and artisans. Would you have preferred the poster used the word "hippy"??
think your imagination caused you to twist that post into something it wasn't intended to mean.
"Enfield is a sub-par retail center. Plain and simple. There is no major draws to Enfield unless one needs something @ the Square, Home Depot, or to visit an inmate…
Enfield is about strip malls and shopping centers. that open and close like the wind. businesses that attract shop lifters, purse snatchers and car thieves."
What a great thing to take pride in… third rate retail.
Heaven forbid we should try aspiring to be something better… it would be so un-blue collar.
I just got back from the mall… have you seen how many stores have closed up shop? Except for Target, Panera, Sears, and Macy's, the place is dead.
That's because strip mall retail is going the way of the milk-man and the sidewalk cart.
Indoor malls are similarly dying. Retail is now all about outdoor shopping and "lifestyle centers" like Blue Back Square. That's what they've built in South Windsor and in Glastonbury.
Remember— that Blue Back Square is a mall— a new kind of mall- but ultimately a retail establishment. The chief opposition was led by Westfarms, which was not interested in competition. The only reason why Blue Back went to referendum was because of the library— the Town wanted to build a new library on the site of the old library that was part of the square.
Strip malls and malls are the way of the past.
""I've owned rentals in T.ville, many, and care about the area even though I don't personally live there.
of course then, you, Mr/Mrs Poster, care about T-ville's future. cuz if your rental property values decline, you're losing $$$ on your investment. you did buy these for investment, right?
that's when people seem to care the most. when it hits them in their pocketbook. but that's human nature.
Am not interested in using my tax $$$ to help T-ville so that your rental property increases in value. if you chose to purchase property down there, well, then ya know what they say about "buy beware".
>>>the T-ville argument the question is still is a healthy T-ville vital to a healthy Enfield.
Enfield would be far better off w/o T-ville. Anyone who thinks otherwise is completely out of touch.
There is nothing of importance in T-ville that couldn't relocate elsewhere in Enfield. Except for St Pat's and St Adalbert's (which are beautiful structures). But other than these, there's no "building" or service in T-vlle that adds to Enfield overall wellbeing.
T-ville brings down Enfield. It doesn't add anything to it. Its like a blood sucker. Sucking away valuable time, $$$ and resources.
"Wow, this is the best bloging I've seen in awhile.
I know. This is when this blog really shines. Allows people a chance to share opinions and ideas without a moderator or time limit (like at those silly town meetings).
>Strip malls and malls are the way of the past.
Folks, the internet is the new way to shop. Remember that. It will continue to "replace" and close down stores in small shopping centers, and malls (both indoor and outdoors).
Why would one pay rent for a store front when one can sell to more people, faster, by delivering goods on-line? Doesn't take a genius to
see what the future will become.
Alas, even "Evergreen" will be effected by the internet. Its a flash-in-pan concept right now, but it too will be negatively effected by the internet. Blue Back will also prove to be a bust in time.
No town can survive when it depends on retail and service industries. Retail, especially during in a recession is the 1st place people cut back on. The days of the Enfield Square are numbered. If it wasn't for Target and the cinemas, that place would likely already be closed. Didn't the East Windsor cinemas just announce their closing?
There's no amount of retail that could revive T-ville. Those days are long gone. And now is the worse time possible to consider
housing ventures. That leaves "what" purpose for T-ville?
This is great discussion. Clearly the problem with t-ville is crime.
CT is always complaining the lack of affordable housing. T-ville has it and that has made it a high crime area. So what is the solution? Tougher enforcement of our laws. If CT had mandatory sentencing for criminals, that would drive the theives back into MA and out of our state. WIth that this could be made into a crime free community that supports affordable housing for those not looking to sell drugs or rob people.Nice concept isn't it?
lurking on the blog
>>North Hampton MA was run down years ago and now it thrives.
Its Northhampton, one word. And there is no chance in hell that Thompsonville could ever be "converted" into something comparable to Northhampton, MA since Enfield is not home to an elite college, like Smith College. Smith College students help to make Northhampton into the quirky cultural center it is.
Northhampton is also close to UMass, Hampshire College, Amherst College and Holyoke College. That's a lot of $$$$ revenue.
Enfield is 2nd tier retail community, in between Hartford and Springfield. So let's be realistic as to "what" Thompsonville could become under these circumstances.
Enfield officials have even trouble with taking baby steps. Don't get ahead of yourself.
*Folks, the internet is the new way to shop. Remember that.*
Internet shopping has been around for years and will continue to grow. However judging by the growth in the South Windsor area and the retail growth in Holyoke and West Hartford, brick and mortar is here to stay. People want to reach out and touch the products they want to buy. Not everyone but enough to keep retail strong.
As for T-ville, people are looking for something different and the river makes a special backdrop that would attract businesses to the area. For T-ville to survive, it doesn't have to be all retail. Professional offices and small to medium businesses would do well if encouraged. It takes, courage, faith, and an investment. A little vision helps too.
Enjoying this immensely. This is what blogging should be all about. Blog on!
Since the Hartford landfill is about filled, and scheduled to close. And there's clearly a lot of money to be made in refuse and recycling (just ask the CRRC), why
not consider taking over a section of T-Ville, and build a "dump".
Since many area towns will now have to transport their trash to MA, there's clearly a need for
a dump closer to Hartford.
Convert a section of this area to a refuse and recycle center, and collect fees from other towns for
accepting their trash. Enfield can't seem to attract or keep
other businesses, but the trash
business should last for quite a while. Could even transport trash and recyclables via the train.
So instead of looking at old run down buildings, the town could have a revenue producing dump.
A great example of how Enfield feels about its history, is what's
become of the last remaining Shaker
house in Enfield. Its in such bad
shape, that its scheduled to be
demolished. According to JI article, http://www.journalinquirer.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=19362043&BRD=985&PAG=461&dept_id=569380&rfi=8
the "State will hold off on razing Shaker building until Enfield officials determine if any artifacts should be saved".
The heck with just the artifacts, what about the house itself? Wasn't this structure something that should have been saved? Where was the Enfield Historical Committee (still busy worrying about the Montessori parking lot)?
What does this say about Enfield, and it inability to preserve a part of Enfield's heritage for future generations?
Enfield officials are far more concerned about making every household buy a 96 gallon trash barrel (when its doubtful that most households even have 96 gallons of trash every week).
But at this rate, officals will likely be able to demolish this historic structure, and put its remains into two or three of these new tipper barrels. Won't that make Enfield officials happy!
As I read on and on all I seem to be reading is complaints. If everyone writing in this blog is so incredibly concerned about Enfield and its thriving or non-thriving nature then why don't you stand up and do something.I've read a ton about people trshing this community and it sickens me. If you've grown up here and you love it then do something. When something means alot to you, you go out and try to fix it. You don't sit behind a computer and complain. As one blogger said, "What does this say about Enfield, and it inability to preserve a part of Enfield's heritage for future generations?" Hunny you are exactly right what does this blog say about you as well. Sitting there complaining when you could be using your valuble time out doing something about it.
As someone who is part of a family who owns and opperates a business in Enfield all i have to say is you people have no pride in your town and you are just as bad as the so called "druggies" and "criminals" that inhabit our community.
Apparently there are alot of ignorant people living in this community. You all need to get a life and stop worrying about the unfixables. You can't change how people are or how they conduct their lives. get over the little crap and start worrying about the bigger picture.
Thanks for the laugh. The idea of anyone ever safely parking their car at the newly proposed train station in Thompsonville is a good one.
I used to live nearby in the Bigelow Apartments. My car was broken into more times than I could count. Many of my neighbors cars have been vandalized with some higher end car models being stolen altogether!
If Enfield's Chief of Police really wants to make a change in T-Ville, He should quit acting as the president of Mount Carmel. He needs to get off his fat lazy ass and serve the people of T-Ville, not
some exclusive club that won't allow a citizen of Enfield to join unless they are of Italian descent.
Maybe then he can find it in himself to really make a change for all of the people of Enfield, not just himself.
Again, thanks for the laugh.
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